Pre-paid site fees refunds

[solidgold]

This is not going to please any of the owners on this forum.

If you are selling a caravan and you have paid your site fees the term in contracts that says you can have a refund on a sliding scale and no refund after June in any year has been proved an unfair term so you can get your pre-paid site fees back when your buyer pays for the remainder of the season/year.

OFT guidance 734 section 4.33 states the sliding scale is only applicable if it is a true representation of any losses made. If the new owner pays for the period you have already paid for, you get your pre-paid site fees back, no question.

Judgement was given on 22nd September 2011 against a site and they had to refund fees. It comes under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 section 5 (1) and it is very very clear.

If you think you have already lost out, think again. You can make a claim up to 6 years after the fees were withheld.

If anybody needs any help please feel free to contact me and I'll give you all the information and what you need to do. Sometimes there are thousands of pounds at stake and I for one don't see why greedy site owners should get away with something that is clearly and proved to be unlawful.

[dasboot]

Every van I've seen for sale has had 'site fees included' in the wording of the advert. Obviously the owner had put these on the end of the price. I think this is a better way to get your money back on your fees with the bonus of making your van a lot more sellable especially if its at the start of or early season that you're selling it.

[Angela B]

When a caravan is sold on my site, any pre-paid site fees are paid back to the caravan owner once the sale is completed... unless they are buying another caravan, in which case it's transferred... :)

[Maddy]

Our site only charges to completion and from completion. We even paid our portion of the rates etc and this was refunded to the seller.

[vanman]

our site don't give any refund at all and the site fee's are not transferable, if we sell our van once site fee's are paid then whoever buys the van will have to pay the site fees again and we lose it all.some sites don't go by these regulations as they are privately owned and not a member of any organisation so they can get away with it. it would be handy to have this information to hand in case we do sell so we can give it a try but don't think our site would fall for it.

[solidgold]

There are a good many fair and honest sites out there and I would congratulate them on actually being fair to their owners.

Vanman, I tried to send a reply but I don't apparently have enough posts so I sent a reply via Darren.

It doesn't matter whether your site is privately owned, big combine owned, belongs to a trade association or whatever. The law very clearly states that they are only allowed to retain money to cover any losses they could possibly make and that is also in the OFT guidance. If you download the OFT guidance it says in section 4.33 everything which you would need in court.

However, at the moment I am jumping all over the BH & HPA to get this term removed for those who are affected by it. My case was in Canterbury on 22nd September 2011 and the judge also referred to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 section 5 (1).

Your site don't have to fall for it. Just ask for your refund. If they refuse then follow their complaints procedure which you know very well will not be any help at all. At the end of that then issue a letter before action and take it through the small claims procedure through your local County Court.

I am hoping you get the private message and we can work from there, but I am more than willing to do all the necessary letters for anybody who needs it.

To those sites who are being fair, thank you. This is certainly not directed at your sites it is only directed at those who are ripping off caravan owners for their own gain and, as it now appears, against the law.

[MuppetChops]

Very interesting Solidgold - We don't get any refund if we leave after the end of June and if we were to manage to sell privately then the fees are non transferable so anyone that bought your van would have to pay the site fees for the remainder of the year. Obviously, if the pitch stood empty for the rest of the season then I can quite understand them not refunding some of the fees but most good pitches are snapped up pretty quickly, plus the new owners have had to pay site fees for the rest of the year so basically they are getting double fees for part of the year.:rolleyes:

[solidgold]

Exactly Muppet Chops, and that believe it or not is against the law, and the law is pretty clear on that as well. It isn't just after the end of June either. Unless thee site can prove they made any loss, if a buyer pays site fees from any part of the year where a seller has pre-paid, then forget the sliding scale percentage, it's irrelevant. It's a straightforward whole month refund pro-rata whether they like it or not. The OFT guidance 734 under group 4, 4.33 very clearly states:
'we do not disagree in principal with the use of such sliding scales provided they represent a genuine pre-estimate of park owners' losses.'

Obviously if a pitch is empty and if the site were to refund pre-paid site fees on that pitch, then the site would have made a loss and it goes without saying that a site has every right to retain fees on that basis, no question. BUT when they expect 2 fees for the same pitch, I don't care what they put on the agreement, that is not on. It's just another rip-off and the trade associations condone it, or at least they did. Not too sure what they will be doing now as the site I had trouble with has been reported to Trading Standards so they're going to have to look a little more seriously into the rip-off culture.

[dasboot]

I didn't realise that some sites don't transfer fees! You learn something new everyday on here. I'm glad our site does but have to thank people like solidgold for bringing hidden pitfalls like this to our attention. This question will be added to my list when and if we ever change sites.

[solidgold]

No sites will transfer fees even though they should, there's nothing in the OFT regs that says they can't. But as they won't transfer fees then it is a consumer right to have these refunded. The site haven't made a loss so they have no right to hold onto your money regardless of what they try and tell you about terms and conditions.

We need more people who are on sites that use the BH & HPA/NCC model contract with the sliding scale and no refund term to contact Trading Standards in their local area. This has to be removed, it is unlawful and grossly unfair. In short a blatant rip off.

[DianeW]

On my site, when we bought our van privately, we did the negotiations with the seller, and then did all the contracts, with the site owner.

The seller had already paid half of the years fees and we paid the other half....no talk of his half being non-transferrable to us.

Our site is a member of the BH / HPA.

[vanman]

our site is a member of "if we can rip you off,we will" :D:D think a lot of sites don't join BH/HPA so that they don't have any guide lines to follow. don't know if you can still go through/use BH/HPA if your site is not a member should you have a problem such as getting over paid ground rent back.

[solidgold]

Our site was a member of the BH & HPA and the NCC. It doesn't really matter whether a site is a member or not, they are still not allowed to charge twice for the same pitch and you are still legally entitled to a refund whether they like it or not, and believe me they don't like it!! And it looks like if you report them to their trade bodies , the trade bodies don't like being caught out either.

This site didn't even comply with the Court Order, thought they knew best by not paying on time so they ended up paying for a Warrant as well. I reported all this plus other problems with the contract to the BH & HPA weeks ago and they are still 'investigating'.

There's nothing to investigate, the law is clear, the OFT guidance is clear, the judge's deliverance was clear, the judgement was clear, so we'll now wait and see what wonderful excuses this lot come up with. As soon as I get them, that is assuming I do get an explanation, I'll put them on here, should make for a good laugh anyway. But I'm guessing they'll just keep waffling hoping I go away and they can get back to ripping off.

Wrong, not going to go away

The site I dealt with was in Kent, Birchington to be precise so buyers beware, avoid like the plague, one rule for one, one rule for another, change the rules to suit themselves.