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  #21  
Old 09-08-2013, 07:07
michaelr1946 michaelr1946 is offline
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also remember that Westminster will be looking on to see what they can do for England.
Dead right there !! .
Mike R .
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2013, 09:12
michaelr1946 michaelr1946 is offline
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I do think that this will almost be a situation where each "case" has to be looked at on it's individual merits . I will give you an example . At the end of last year , a couple purchased a caravan on the site where we have ours .
They seemed to be there each time we went ,(nothing wrong in that mind you! ) . On one occasion I got into conversation with the husband , really nice guy and very sociable . In the course of conversation ,I asked where they lived , he went on to tell me that they had been living in Turkey , had a property there , very nice etc etc . However apparently the "political" situation there had become a little alarming to them , seemingly the Turkey/Bulgaria/Syria relationships being strained , to the extent that they had sold up and returned to the UK . They had bought the static as a quick remedy ,in order to then look around at their leisure for a property here ,so were , at that point in time , living in the caravan . Went there last month and saw the guy again , asked how the property search was going , to which he replied very happily that they had now got a place , but were going to retain the caravan for holidays , (and that is actually the case now , it wasn't "bulls**t" ) .
My point here is that , it would have been all too easy to judge this very nice couple on first impressions , whereas they had no intention of living there long-term .
This is why I say that every case could be very different .
I think that great consideration has to be given to this question , is a huge can of worms going to be opened , which may well cause genuine people a problem and/or embarassment on an issue that is nothing to do with them.
Cheers
Mike R
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  #23  
Old 09-08-2013, 15:12
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I do think that this will almost be a situation where each "case" has to be looked at on it's individual merits . I will give you an example . At the end of last year , a couple purchased a caravan on the site where we have ours .
They seemed to be there each time we went ,(nothing wrong in that mind you! ) . On one occasion I got into conversation with the husband , really nice guy and very sociable . In the course of conversation ,I asked where they lived , he went on to tell me that they had been living in Turkey , had a property there , very nice etc etc . However apparently the "political" situation there had become a little alarming to them , seemingly the Turkey/Bulgaria/Syria relationships being strained , to the extent that they had sold up and returned to the UK . They had bought the static as a quick remedy ,in order to then look around at their leisure for a property here ,so were , at that point in time , living in the caravan . Went there last month and saw the guy again , asked how the property search was going , to which he replied very happily that they had now got a place , but were going to retain the caravan for holidays , (and that is actually the case now , it wasn't "bulls**t" ) .
My point here is that , it would have been all too easy to judge this very nice couple on first impressions , whereas they had no intention of living there long-term .
This is why I say that every case could be very different .
I think that great consideration has to be given to this question , is a huge can of worms going to be opened , which may well cause genuine people a problem and/or embarassment on an issue that is nothing to do with them.
Cheers
Mike R


We're never comfortable with owners who have a "main" home abroad. It's so hard to prove what they are really doing plus what it they get ill and can't go home and the season ends.

As you say each case needs to be looked at. I had a really nice chap on the phone the other day, he's interested in a Willerby Caravan on Tree Tops. He was refreshingly open and honest about his situation as he wanted to be on the right side of the law. He happened to be an ex policeman so I guess that's why he wanted everything to be right. He was selling up in the UK and taking up residence in his Spanish home with the full residency permits. I gave him my, "but what happens if you want to come home permanently , you can't live in the caravan". He'd planned for that also by purchasing a buy to let property in the UK. He knew at some point he's want to return to the UK in his old age. The caravan was simply so that he could come to the UK a few times a year and visit his granddaughter.

It all sounded kind of OK, but very complex. I took some advice and apparently what he wants to do is totally fine with the assurance that he had a UK home when he was ready to come back from Spain on a full time basis.

Unfortunately, not every one is so honest. We had a potential lodge customer who let slip in front of our wardens that he was buying a lodge so his daughter could move into his house. On paper no one would ever find out, but I'd know what he was up to it would be morally to take him onto the park.
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  #24  
Old 09-08-2013, 17:00
michaelr1946 michaelr1946 is offline
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We're never comfortable with owners who have a "main" home abroad. It's so hard to prove what they are really doing plus what it they get ill and can't go home and the season ends.

As you say each case needs to be looked at. I had a really nice chap on the phone the other day, he's interested in a Willerby Caravan on Tree Tops. He was refreshingly open and honest about his situation as he wanted to be on the right side of the law. He happened to be an ex policeman so I guess that's why he wanted everything to be right. He was selling up in the UK and taking up residence in his Spanish home with the full residency permits. I gave him my, "but what happens if you want to come home permanently , you can't live in the caravan". He'd planned for that also by purchasing a buy to let property in the UK. He knew at some point he's want to return to the UK in his old age. The caravan was simply so that he could come to the UK a few times a year and visit his granddaughter.

It all sounded kind of OK, but very complex. I took some advice and apparently what he wants to do is totally fine with the assurance that he had a UK home when he was ready to come back from Spain on a full time basis.

Unfortunately, not every one is so honest. We had a potential lodge customer who let slip in front of our wardens that he was buying a lodge so his daughter could move into his house. On paper no one would ever find out, but I'd know what he was up to it would be morally to take him onto the park.
But you don't really know that what he has told you is fact , it could be a whole load of cobblers !, AND !..... sorry ! , but the fact that someone was an ex-policeman would not mean a thing to me in my book , some police can be as bent as a nine-bob note while they are serving ! , never mind after .
On the other hand , the guy should not be dis-believed because everyone is innocent until proven guilty , or so we say .
I can see a lot of paranoia setting in with Park Operators over these kind of issues , and it is my further belief that it will cause a lot of ill feelings and friction between operators and their punters , if van owners start to get the "third degree", let us hope not ,BUT........ I ain't so sure!!!????.
Cheers
Mike R .
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  #25  
Old 09-08-2013, 21:53
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But you don't really know that what he has told you is fact , it could be a whole load of cobblers !, AND !..... sorry ! , but the fact that someone was an ex-policeman would not mean a thing to me in my book , some police can be as bent as a nine-bob note while they are serving ! , never mind after .
On the other hand , the guy should not be dis-believed because everyone is innocent until proven guilty , or so we say .
I can see a lot of paranoia setting in with Park Operators over these kind of issues , and it is my further belief that it will cause a lot of ill feelings and friction between operators and their punters , if van owners start to get the "third degree", let us hope not ,BUT........ I ain't so sure!!!????.
Cheers
Mike R .
I share your concerns about being overly suspicious and coming on a bit heavy with customer who we're not sure about.

We've probably been a bit heavy with prospective owners for 3 or 4 yours and worse since we've had the lodge park. 95% of the time we can spot livers within 2 minutes of meeting them, the order of their questions is predictable, but as I mentioned in an earlier post some have managed to get quite a way through the sales process. Actually we had two couples at the beginning of the year, total potential sales 250k. We knew they wanted to live in the caravans, but the park they are on accepted their stories and sold to them, sometimes I wonder who's stupid them or us.

If someone did slip under the wire then we would have a contract that said they could not live at Tree Tops. Every year they sign to say they agree to the rules which also say they can't live on the park. On the lodge park, which open 10.5 month we ask for 3 proofs of residence for every person listed on the contract. If the liver was detected by the council, we could show that we had been deceived and take appropriate action.

I think Mike makes an interesting point though and I will probably work it into my consultation response. We can't make caravan parks into police states (as much as I like the idea ). All of these checks could put a barrier up between the park owner and the customer. Good parks tend to be those where owners and customer get on, I wouldn't want to work on a park where everyone was at odds.

The more I think about this situation the more I think education is an important part of the solution. The majority of people we see who want to live in caravans don't know that they can't. If there was a government document which explained how a caravan could and should be used then that would help. If enough parks gave out the right information then perhaps, a couple of years down the line we could be in better place where we don't need as many checks.

Any other suggestions?
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  #26  
Old 10-08-2013, 10:28
michaelr1946 michaelr1946 is offline
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I think that TT has hit the nail on the head when referring to the the lost sales of potentially 250k , and asks the question , who is stupid , them or us , obviously the park who made the sales are laughing all the way to the bank, which really doesn't put them in the "stupid" slot , so there is only one other candidate for that dubious honour !! .
It is my view that the whole scenario is somewhat a "sledge hammer to crack a walnut" .
As I've already mentioned , I certainly am not aware of a raging problem here , and to be perfectly honest ,I did see the relevant AM Millar making his spiel on TV and thought at the time , here is another no-body trying to make a name for himself , ( I've looked at his web-site and I think he certainly has a bit of a love affair with himself ).
I have seen things like this happen on numerous occasions in the world of business and commerce , very often with financial and commercial catastrophe , in the end . However , in good old British fashion it will probably blunder ahead until it all goes pear-shaped and then no doubt , Mr Millar will be either nowhere to be seen , or , putting his hands in his pockets and saying "Nothing to do with me mate " . The only saving grace is that "lessons will be learnt "!!( LOL ) , but the only losers will be park operators .
I just hope it doesn't happen though !, all it needs is some common sense at ground level .
Cheers
Mike R .
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  #27  
Old 10-08-2013, 10:50
terrymw terrymw is offline
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Hi, Iam fairly new to this and I am looking to buy in the next few years. Forgive my ignorance about this subject but as a 60year old with 4 daughters and 2 granchildren I dont see the difference between myself and my wife living on a site full time, license permitting. Or just living there for 6 months, letting it out for 3 months and letting my children use it for the other 3 months. I buy the caravan, I pay all the bills and do the same with my home. Dont get me wrong I am not planning to do this but I dont want to pay a lot of money out for something that other people are telling me how to use it. Am I really missing something obvious here, and if I am I appologise but you can always put me straight and make me a little bit wiser before I take the plunge.
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  #28  
Old 10-08-2013, 11:41
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Terry

When you have a holiday home on a Holiday Home Park you dont pay Council Tax as you are already paying it for your home address and as you know, Council Tax is used to pay for all the amenities in your home address area. (eg police, schools,etc)

My understanding of the issue is that folks who live in their caravan on a Holiday Home Park and do not have a home address will not be paying Council Tax as the Local Authority think its a holiday home. They will be making use of the facilities 24/7 without actually contributing to the cost. They will also be possibly taking up places in schools or doctors surgeries that should be available to folks who do live in the area and who do pay the Council Tax.
Anyone wanting to live in a caravan should be on a Residential Site and then they will be charged Council Tax to pay for the amenities they use.

I hope Ive explained this correctly. If not then hopefully someone will put me right

As you say, you are buying the van and paying the bills and also paying the bills at home so you would not be "living" in your van (even if you are in it for most of the year) as youve got a home address that you are paying the Council Tax on.
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  #29  
Old 10-08-2013, 11:50
terrymw terrymw is offline
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Thanks marianda, so does that mean if these people where to pay council tax at both addresses nobody would have a problem with it.
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  #30  
Old 10-08-2013, 11:56
michaelr1946 michaelr1946 is offline
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Hi, Iam fairly new to this and I am looking to buy in the next few years. Forgive my ignorance about this subject but as a 60year old with 4 daughters and 2 granchildren I dont see the difference between myself and my wife living on a site full time, license permitting. Or just living there for 6 months, letting it out for 3 months and letting my children use it for the other 3 months. I buy the caravan, I pay all the bills and do the same with my home. Dont get me wrong I am not planning to do this but I dont want to pay a lot of money out for something that other people are telling me how to use it. Am I really missing something obvious here, and if I am I appologise but you can always put me straight and make me a little bit wiser before I take the plunge.
And there speaks the voice of down to earth common sense , and reality!!.
Well said my friend ! .
Cheers
Mike R .
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